I believe God will save every person, although I’m not sure about how we respond to this in relation to our free will.
Some of the questions that came to mind as I pondered this:
• If God saves everyone, is hell necessary, or actually does it exist?
• If salvation through Jesus was not necessary, why die at all?
Rom 8:28-30 and Eph 1:4 speak about God loving us from the beginning of time and us being acceptable through Jesus Christ.
These texts indicate that we would all be in an eternal relationship with him.
Maybe our understanding of salvation, is all about our need for exclusivity, right, wrong, compartmentalization and leads to our theology of ‘not all are saved’. Perhaps all will be with Christ in eternity. In charismatic circles, we have a specific view of what salvation is, but actually what does belief in Jesus Christ mean? Maybe Sally believed in Jesus Christ.
Part of the problem is how we come to Christ – frequently arm wrestled into making a decision “in case you die tonight where will you go?” A loving, gracious God who suffered a brutal death on the cross doesn’t need to threaten us into a relationship with him.
How sad that charismatic Christianity has chrystalised our Christian faith into a 20 second decision and episode, rather than a lifetime of transformation. So maybe in charismatic thinking, we need to be bullied into making a decision because “narrow is the road to salvation”.
Do we struggle with the phrase that ‘God accepted me’ because we don’t accept ourselves, so how could God?
Fifty years ago, prior to the charismatic movement, did believers think they would be excluded from eternal life? Growing up in a traditional church, I don’t ever remember anyone telling me that I was excluded from being in a relationship with God.
Salvation wasn’t a moment of saying yes at a rally or crusade. I resonate with the comment on p 114 “God’s love will be the reason, not the reward, for our repentance”.
In summary, my thoughts are that the issues of salvation (exclusion and inclusion) are modern and related to charismatic or evangelical belief. Although if pressed, more traditional churches might also take a stance of exclusion. I believe in an all loving God, who wants to be in relationship with mankind and I can’t imagine how he would want anyone excluded.
Nic Paton said
Thanks Kim.
I am glad to see so many question marks. In my experience, Inclusion is an issue that involves much digging.
I’d like to respond to 2 of your remarks:
1) If salvation through Jesus was not necessary, why die at all?
I do not think the universalist position as put forward in If Grace is True (the christian universalist to be precise) ever suggests that Christ is not central to salvation. He is in fact THE gate through which all creation must pass. It is precisely because of Jesus that we can believe in universal salvation.
Other universalisms, perhaps new age or Hindu, do not necesarily see it this way. Most Eastern thought believes in an enlightenment and reincarnation.
And what I call “Cheap Universalism” is about not *wanting* God to damn everybody, and not wanting to face the reality of sin, so becomes a setimental belief, as in “It’s too horrible to think of, therefore hell doesn’t exist.”
But costly universalism is based around the cross, and takes full cogniscance of sin, justice and mercy.
2) Fifty years ago, prior to the charismatic movement, did believers think they would be excluded from eternal life?
The roots of exclusivism go right back to the beginning, they are not an invention of the Charismatic movement. I’d suggest these highlights, however.
- Sin as the root cause of exclusion.
- The fact of a Chosen race per se: Abraham. While the Jews were called apart, the covenant explicitly states that through them the whoel world will be blessed.
- The Pharisees. Jesus was especially hard on them, and their version of salvation – was very influenced by the exile in Babylon amonsgst the Persians, with a dualistic worldview (based on the Manichaean religion)
- St Augustine – his influence on the church – you and me – is inordinate. He “invented” (OK maybe thats the wrong word but I don’t care) the Just War theory, Biblical Canon, Conditional Election (God will only save a few) and the conventional view of eternal damnation as held today.
- The Fifth Ecumenical council (Second Council of Constantinople) in 553 AD, where the early universalism of Origen, Jerome and Gregory was outlawed by the Roman Church who saw exclusivity as much more politically useful.
- The Reformation began a process of increasing exclusion with Sola Scriptura spawning thousands of denominations.
- Calvin was a major influence, and following him later preachers such as Spurgeon, and including the 18th century American revivals with the likes of Jonathan Edwards, brought the doctrine of Hell to the very forefront of their Gospel.
Today there is a revival of Calvinism, even within emergent cirlces – popular preacher Mark Driscoll for example preaches Hellfire. I believe this is due to underlying anxiety about the shifts in society; to adopt a warlike mode is understandable when your basis for belief appears under threat.
Jonathan Brink said
Nic, you stole my comment.
The fifth ecumenical council essentially outlawed Apocatastasis, which is the “official” word for inclusivism. But the roots of “Apo” are there in spades in Scripture.
Nic Paton said
Jonathan
I just borrowed the comment – thanks.[walter wink]
Tell us more about the ‘roots of apo’?
Jonathan Brink said
It’s just a really big word that means the restoration of all things. Clement and Origen argue from this position. The idea is rooted in the idea the good wins out in the end.
It finds it’s roots in the words of Peter.
Acts 3:21 – He must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.
But I have found over 50 verses that support this same concept.
Andrew said
Kim,
I also ponder on the reason for the passion of Jesus. Why was this act so vital if all are saved?
Possibly we need to forget the “saved concept” for a moment and focus on God’s desire (will) to “reconcile EVERYTHING to himself” , also as per Jonathan’s quote from Acts 3 “God to restore everything”.
What does differentiate the “cheap universalism” from gracious gospel is how you view Jesus.
My thoughts are not complete and I’m still grappling with this, but I would be keen to get your (and others) thoughts on Colossians 1 vs 15-20.
Christ Is Supreme
15 Christ is the visible image of the invisible God.
He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creation,
16 for through him God created everything
in the heavenly realms and on earth.
He made the things we can see
and the things we can’t see—
such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world.
Everything was created through him and for him.
17 He existed before anything else,
and he holds all creation together.
18 Christ is also the head of the church,
which is his body.
He is the beginning,
supreme over all who rise from the dead.
So he is first in everything.
19 For God in all his fullness
was pleased to live in Christ,
20 and through him God reconciled
everything to himself.
He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth
by means of Christ’s blood on the cross. (NLT)
Does not this scripture speak more of the Creator’s desire for reconciliation than a God that wants to save us from hell? It places Jesus as Christ, as God taking the initiative to ensure that His “will is done on earth as it is in heaven”.
Thanks for your honesty in looking at this chapter.
Be blessed
Chad said
Great comments all around and thank you Kim for your write up on this chapter.
I have yet to find a better reason why Christ became flesh and died and rose again than the one narrated by Athanasius in his short but brilliant piece, On the Incarnation. I read it every Advent and am moved to tears each time. I highly recommend everytime I get the chance. This was one of them
peace.
Andrew said
Chad,
Thanks for the recommendation. I’ve ordered the book through Amazon in the UK. It takes roughly 2 weeks to deliver to Cape Town, so, it should arrive in time to read during advent.
be blessed
Chad said
Andrew- great! You will have to let me know your thoughts once you read it.
I forgot that over a year ago I wrote about that book and have a essay about it that can be read on my blog if anyone is interested: http://chadholtz.wordpress.com/2008/12/02/the-glory-and-wonder-of-the-incarnation/
peace